not-front-rule

What WVO can I use?

Welcome to the Mercedes-Benz Club of America Forums
Here, you'll find members en masse who can talk, guide, answer or listen to your Mercedes-Benz related questions and comments. Participation in the forums is free to Club members. If you're a guest of this site, you'll have access to our read-only discussions. Like what you see? Join the Club to get full Q&A privileges. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out our FAQ page.  To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Forum Jump

16 replies [Last post]
Guest
bthornton23's picture
Offline

Posts:
17

Hey guys this is my first post here. I've own my first MBZ for a little over a month now a 84 300SD. This is also my first diesel.

One of the main reasons I got this car was to experiment with running WVO. I've stopped at a couple of grocery stores and one used Soy Oil and it has like citric acid in it as a preservative. Is soy OK? What about the citric acid?

The other store I stopped at uses vegetable shortening. I saw a vid that said you don't want to pick anything up from a place that uses shortening in their oil. Would vegetable shortening be the same as using shortening in the oil?

Sorry I'm not really up on my oils so if some one could give me a little run down of does and don'ts that would be great.

Also...I haven't done a conversion on the car and don't really plan on it in the near future. I watch this video and it doesn't really seem nessesary. Could some one give me their thoughts on this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13hIvH3KlBI

Share this
Moderator
Maxbumpo's picture
Mount Pleasant, SC
Offline
Joined: February 2nd, 2006

Posts:
4828

Vehicles
1995 E300 Diesel
1987 300TDT
Re: What WVO can I use?

Bill,

Welcome! I don't know the answers to your questions, I don't use anything other than pump fuel, but be patient because there are some knowledgable folks here (Dropnosky is one) who can probably help you out.

If you have other questions not related to the fuel you are using, the Marshall Booth Diesel area and the W123 area get lots of traffic and your questions will get faster responses in either of those.

Diesel: http://mbca.cartama.net/forumdisplay.php?f=5

W123: http://mbca.cartama.net/forumdisplay.php?f=32

__________________

Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD, 334k miles (need to pull the head again...)
'95 E300 Diesel, 335k miles (daily driving duty)
'73 Balboa 20

Guest
bthornton23's picture
Offline

Posts:
17
Re: What WVO can I use?

Thanks, Who knew there were so many types of oil :confused:

Member
shadetree's picture
Fountain, CO
Offline
Joined: August 14th, 1989

Posts:
523

Vehicles
1984 300DT
1984 230E
Re: What WVO can I use?

Hello,
Regarding the use of WVO. Consider your source of WVO and the area
you have to process cleanup and removal of glycerin from WVO.
The program may sound good at the offset but may become a problem
just to process and store the product. Also your access to good WVO
could be a problem if you are on the road and need to fill up.
For the past 2 or 3 years I have experimented with various mixes of veggie
oils and have not been dissatisfied other than in areas mentioned above.
As for me so long as I can obtain USLD at about any fuel station for
approximately $2.50 per gallon I don't find it worthwhile to bother
with other type fuels.
Regards,
Chas Mattix

__________________

Charles E Mattix

Moderator
Maxbumpo's picture
Mount Pleasant, SC
Offline
Joined: February 2nd, 2006

Posts:
4828

Vehicles
1995 E300 Diesel
1987 300TDT
Re: What WVO can I use?

If you haven't already checked out this website, they've got a bunch of stuff to keep you busy reading for awhile:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html

__________________

Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD, 334k miles (need to pull the head again...)
'95 E300 Diesel, 335k miles (daily driving duty)
'73 Balboa 20

Member
pch2021's picture
Rockledge, FL
Offline
Joined: September 15th, 2005

Posts:
2780

Vehicles
None
Re: What WVO can I use?

my answer: NONE.
all of it will ruin your engine.

__________________

Pierre Hedary
...happily servicing vintage Mercedes-Benz in sunny Florida...
1972 280SE 4.5 252K
1970 280se 3.5 coupe 108K
1971 300sel 4.5 121K
1991 420SEL TMU, but looks brand new!
Mercedes technical advice: 407 765 2867

Guest
Biodiesel300TD's picture
Offline

Posts:
301
Re: What WVO can I use?

Soy and canola are what I use. I have 40k miles of VO use in my 240 and still going strong. Basically what you want is oil that is still liquid at a low temperature. My oil is still liquid below freezing, though it's much thicker. Avoid anything that looks thick at room temp. It's not worth your time and effort. The cleaner the oil you start with the easier it will be for you to filter and process. Avoid additives of any kind if you can.

That video is about right in general for filtering VO. I use a similar setup. I coarse filter my oil into a 55 gal heater barrel that has a water heater element in the bottom of it. Once the barrel is full I heat the oil then let it sit to settle all the water and particulates out. Then I pump it out into a smaller heater barrel and reheat it to about 100*F so that I can filter it through two sock filters like in the video but my filters are a double filter with an inner bag of 10microns and and outer bag of 1micron.

I would suggest not doing the single tank like the guy in the video, too troublesome if you get caught with a cold spell. A two tank system in far more reliable. I can still run regular diesel despite the what is going on in my VO system. Here are pic of my conversion if you wanna take a look - My VO Conversion

__________________


Andrew  <> 1978 240D ~ Flo ~307k mi <> 2004 VW Jetta Wagon TDI ~ Her Car ~ 115k mi <> 1982 300TD ~ Winnie ~ Sold at 178k mi <> 1977 300D ~ Sold

Content Manager
editorgary's picture
Los Altos, CA
Offline
Joined: January 11th, 2008

Posts:
2101

Vehicles
2005 C55 AMG
Re: What WVO can I use?

I just finished researching an article for the january issue of The Star on the use of straight vegetable oil, waste vegetable oil, and biodiesel fuel. The brief answer to your question is that if you're not prepared to install a conversion kit on your engine that preheats the fuel and filters it, and/or (preferably and) set up a processing system in your back yard in order to test, filter, and process your fuel to remove particulates, acid, and water at the very least, two things are going to happen very soon after you start putting vegetable oil in your engine. First, you're going to be very dissatisfied with the experience -- the engine will be hard to start and low on power -- and then not too far down the road, you're going to wind up with clogged injectors, deteriorating fuel lines, and possibly a ruined engine.
You CAN use good-quality WVO in your engine, at considerable savings in costs, and do it with reasonably good results, but only if you are prepared to install the necessary conversion to the engine, and hook up with a co-op of like-minded folks who can spread the labor and cost of building and running a decent fuel processing system in someone's backyard.
Anything less and you won't be happy. "Maybe not today, and maybe not tomorrow, but soon, and for a long time."
Gary

__________________

Gary Anderson Editor, The Star
2005 C55 AMG
Member, San Francisco Bay Area Section
Secretary, MBCA Educational Foundation
Vintage racing driver, track driving instructor

Guest
bthornton23's picture
Offline

Posts:
17
Re: What WVO can I use?

Thanks for the replies guys. I think that for the time being I'm going to hold off on the VO or WVO. This is my everyday runner 80mi+ per day till at least the end of next summer so I don't really want to mess with it and end up screwing something up and not have any back up wheels.

Thanks again and keep em coming.

Member
pch2021's picture
Rockledge, FL
Offline
Joined: September 15th, 2005

Posts:
2780

Vehicles
None
Re: What WVO can I use?

right. keep it diesel. Then it will last.

__________________

Pierre Hedary
...happily servicing vintage Mercedes-Benz in sunny Florida...
1972 280SE 4.5 252K
1970 280se 3.5 coupe 108K
1971 300sel 4.5 121K
1991 420SEL TMU, but looks brand new!
Mercedes technical advice: 407 765 2867

Guest
Biodiesel300TD's picture
Offline

Posts:
301
Re: What WVO can I use?

bthornton23;180425 wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys. I think that for the time being I'm going to hold off on the VO or WVO. This is my everyday runner 80mi+ per day till at least the end of next summer so I don't really want to mess with it and end up screwing something up and not have any back up wheels.

Thanks again and keep em coming.

I put my system in for a 50 miles/day commute 3 years ago. I put 18k miles on the system this year. My wife is the one that drives the car so I had to build a fool proof system cause she wasn't going to be doing any roadside wrenching. I strongly suggest a complete separate system for the VO. My system is made up of a coolant heated second tank, coolant heated fuel lines, coolant heated fuel filter, another coolant heated fuel heater, and two electric heaters, and an auxiliary fuel pump. The filter is the most common point of blockage, so if you clog a filter when you are sharing a filter for diesel and VO, you get to change it on the road or limp it home. My system has never left me on the side of the road.

__________________


Andrew  <> 1978 240D ~ Flo ~307k mi <> 2004 VW Jetta Wagon TDI ~ Her Car ~ 115k mi <> 1982 300TD ~ Winnie ~ Sold at 178k mi <> 1977 300D ~ Sold

Content Manager
editorgary's picture
Los Altos, CA
Offline
Joined: January 11th, 2008

Posts:
2101

Vehicles
2005 C55 AMG
Re: What WVO can I use?

Andrew,
Which of your two cars are you describing?
Where are you sourcing your oil, what kind of oil, and what are you doing, if anything, to it before putting it into the car?
What's the ambient temp range where you drive?
Thanks
gary

__________________

Gary Anderson Editor, The Star
2005 C55 AMG
Member, San Francisco Bay Area Section
Secretary, MBCA Educational Foundation
Vintage racing driver, track driving instructor

Guest
Biodiesel300TD's picture
Offline

Posts:
301
Re: What WVO can I use?

editorgary;180953 wrote:
Andrew,
Which of your two cars are you describing?
Where are you sourcing your oil, what kind of oil, and what are you doing, if anything, to it before putting it into the car?
What's the ambient temp range where you drive?
Thanks
gary

-I am running veg in my 240.
-I have two local restaurants that I collect oil from. I get soy and canola.
I use a three barrel system. My first barrel is a 50 gallon barrel with a hot water heater element in the bottom. I pour the veg oil through a coarse filter into the heater barrel. Once it's full I plug in the heater and let it heat for several hours. Then I unplug it let some settling happen. I try to leave the barrel settling for as long as I can, at least a week. Then I drain the crap oil from the bottom via a drain. Then I pump out the good oil into my second barrel which is a 30 gal heater barrel. In this barrel I heat the oil to about 100*F and pump it through two bag filters that filter down to 1micron into my third barrel. Now it's ready for the car. I have an onboard heated filter in the car that filters to 10microns.
-Temps here range from 12*F to over 90*F. The car still runs fine with temps below freezing. You just have to wait a little longer for the coolant to heat up the system, and I use the block heater even though the car starts fine in 12* with out it.
-I am averaging 74mpg on the diesel. I've gotten as high as 130mpg and as low as 45mpg.

__________________


Andrew  <> 1978 240D ~ Flo ~307k mi <> 2004 VW Jetta Wagon TDI ~ Her Car ~ 115k mi <> 1982 300TD ~ Winnie ~ Sold at 178k mi <> 1977 300D ~ Sold

Content Manager
editorgary's picture
Los Altos, CA
Offline
Joined: January 11th, 2008

Posts:
2101

Vehicles
2005 C55 AMG
Re: What WVO can I use?

Thanks for that info: Wouldn't want folks to think it's possible to just dump the stuff into the tank in the restaurant parking lot (I understand some folks still believe that .)
Do I understand then that your wife drives the 300TD on biofuel -- i.e. ASTM-certified commercially-processed biodiesel fuel?
Hope you enjoy our article in the upcoming Star about the Eco-Benz 300TD that Robert Schilling down here in San Francisco has restored, and the companion article on diesel fuels.

Gary

__________________

Gary Anderson Editor, The Star
2005 C55 AMG
Member, San Francisco Bay Area Section
Secretary, MBCA Educational Foundation
Vintage racing driver, track driving instructor

Guest
Biodiesel300TD's picture
Offline

Posts:
301
Re: What WVO can I use?

Actually my wife drives the WVO 240D and I drive the biodiesel powered 300TD.

__________________


Andrew  <> 1978 240D ~ Flo ~307k mi <> 2004 VW Jetta Wagon TDI ~ Her Car ~ 115k mi <> 1982 300TD ~ Winnie ~ Sold at 178k mi <> 1977 300D ~ Sold

Content Manager
editorgary's picture
Los Altos, CA
Offline
Joined: January 11th, 2008

Posts:
2101

Vehicles
2005 C55 AMG
Re: What WVO can I use?

I realize this is turning into a conversation rather than postings, but having just finished the article on fuels, I'm intrigued. Is there a reason why you use your home-brewed veggie oil in the 240D, and pay the high price of commercial biodiesel for the 300TD?
gary

__________________

Gary Anderson Editor, The Star
2005 C55 AMG
Member, San Francisco Bay Area Section
Secretary, MBCA Educational Foundation
Vintage racing driver, track driving instructor

Guest
Biodiesel300TD's picture
Offline

Posts:
301
Re: What WVO can I use?

With veg oil it's about the distance you drive in one sitting. Making short trips and driving around town you don't get to use veg oil much. The car doesn't get warm enough to switch over much. Where as in my wife's situation she drives 50mi one way for work so the car gets nice a warm and she can run veg oil for 40-45 miles of her trip. I drive 15mi one way for work, so I wouldn't get as much use out of the veg oil. The second tank was part of the deciding factor as well. There really isn't a good place to put a 2nd tank in a wagon unless you want it in the cabin of the car.

I run B20 or diesel, in the stock tank for the 240 and always in the wagon. I primarily use B20 in my wagon because that is what is commercially available nearest me. The B20 usually cost nearly the same as diesel, sometimes a little more sometimes a little less. My wife puts either B20 or diesel in the stock tank of the 240. I've put under 5000 mi on my wagon this year, and 18k miles on the 240.

__________________


Andrew  <> 1978 240D ~ Flo ~307k mi <> 2004 VW Jetta Wagon TDI ~ Her Car ~ 115k mi <> 1982 300TD ~ Winnie ~ Sold at 178k mi <> 1977 300D ~ Sold

Forum Jump

Share this