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Decarbonizing - freeing up rings

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jkubica's picture
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Hi All

I've seen various posts concerning Italian Tuneups, special oils & Diesel Purge with regard to freeing up stuck piston rings.

Is this a myth - or all there really products and methods that will decarbonize and free up stuck piston rings without disassembly of the engine?

And - if so - would the unstuck rings function & seal correctly?

Joseph

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Re: Decarbonizing - freeing up rings

There is no mouse milk that will cure a mechanical problem. In spite of that, is there a product that will free up stuck rings? If you are absolutely sure that the rings are caboned up and not broken and the cyliners is not scored or out of round, then maybe, just maybe the mose milk will work...................then again, maybe not.

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Re: Decarbonizing - freeing up rings

Robert Goodwin;155792 wrote:
There is no mouse milk that will cure a mechanical problem. In spite of that, is there a product that will free up stuck rings? If you are absolutely sure that the rings are caboned up and not broken and the cyliners is not scored or out of round, then maybe, just maybe the mose milk will work...................then again, maybe not.

OK, I'll bite. What is the chemical formula for Mouse Milk and where do I find it?

Joseph

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Re: Decarbonizing - freeing up rings

Anything sold at Pep Boys, Advance, Autozone and hundreds of other places that is supposed to cure this, that or the other, is mouse milk. Just look in the engine additives section of your favorite parts store.

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Re: Decarbonizing - freeing up rings

Well diesel purge is not average Mouse Milk, it requires ordering, also it lacks the most common mouse milk ingredient which appears to be Teflon.

--------------
diesel purge

It's purpose is to clean the injection pump, injectors and remove carbon. Chemically it's well suited to do this.

65% DIESEL FUEL
25% 2-ETHYLHEXYLNITRATE http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/981364
8% PETROLEUM DISTILLATE
1% 1,2,4-TRIMETHYLBENZENE http://www.epa.gov/chemfact/s_trimet.txt

A cetane enhancer and cleaner in high quality diesel/kerosene.

But I can't say I've heard anything about it curing stuck rings.

-------------------

Chevron TECHRON Concentrate Plus Fuel System Cleaner

I have heard of people using this for cleaning up carbon deposits on 2 cycle engines with great success when the engine is apart

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Synthetic oil (non mouse milk flavor) might help over 30,000 miles

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Italian tuneups require an Italian mountain, or other imposter. In my testing with the 92TDt only a mountain pass was successful in raising engine temp from 90C to 105/110C. In order to burn cylinder carbon off one needs lots of heat and maximum air flow etc.

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Fuel additive for gasoline engines MB Part No. A000 989 25 45 12
This works btw, not mouse milk, but since I buy cardlock gas I miss out on having the major fuel companies adding lots of chemicals by default. However this does not apply for diesels of course.

---------------------

Diesel centane enhancers, diesel conditioners, etc.

None of these seem to affect 616/617,603 etc engines. They do affect new diesel engines (2000 era) mostly because of the crummy centane levels in north american diesel outside of California and spots on the eastern canadian seaboard. Check VW tdi club forums for outlook on success with these products if you have a TDI based injection system.

However these *might* help milage by 2-5% depending on how your supplier in north america messed with your diesel fuel to make Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel. Only testing and record keeping will tell, plus is it cost effective?

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Re: Decarbonizing - freeing up rings

do all your prescribed engine and gearbox maintenance. Then, take car on a good hard run up a few hills under heavy throttle.

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Pierre Hedary
...happily servicing vintage Mercedes-Benz in sunny Florida...
1972 280SE 4.5 252K
1970 280se 3.5 coupe 108K
1971 300sel 4.5 121K
1991 420SEL TMU, but looks brand new!
Mercedes technical advice: 407 765 2867

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Re: Decarbonizing - freeing up rings

Thanks to everyone

Joseph

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Re: Decarbonizing - freeing up rings

Has anyone tried http://www.auto-rx.com/ ?

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Re: Decarbonizing - freeing up rings

From what I've read it does do what it claims.

http://www.k6jrf.com/MB_lifter.html

However I've not tried it.

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Re: Decarbonizing - freeing up rings

curlytom;156104 wrote:
Has anyone tried http://www.auto-rx.com/ ?

Yes, and lots of documented results. Seems to be worth a try, but I'd have my concerns about its capability in severe situations. A poorly maintained car is a poorly maintained car and no magic potion will correct long-term neglect.

Running a good quality oil (Gr III or Gr IV/V) may give some relief over a period of time.

OP: What kind of car are you working on? How many miles? Current issues/concerns?

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Re: Decarbonizing - freeing up rings

Although I have never used auto-rx, the guys over at bobistheoilguy.com really like this stuff and my brother who drives his own big rig swears by it.
I've also read good things about the products made by StarTron - they claim their product can remove carbon build-up.

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Re: Decarbonizing - freeing up rings

johnmci;155805 wrote:
Well diesel purge is not average Mouse Milk, it requires ordering

Actually I found cans of Lubro Moly diesel purge at a NAPA store for less $ than what Performance Products (who I used to get it from) sold it online for.

And as for freeing stuck rings, I used Seafoam in my Crown Vic's oil and it had a positive effect after driving 100 miles, then changing the oil (cleaned out a lot of nasty stuff that built up over 23 years). However, I wouldn't use it in my 300D because don't know what kind of effect it would have on diesel oil.

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Re: Decarbonizing - freeing up rings

Use a quality synthetic oil and it will clean out the engine on its own. Additives should never be used.

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Re: Decarbonizing - freeing up rings

mixelpix;160764 wrote:
The Star mag recently reported upon the ways in which ULSD does not adequately lubricate the top end of the IP can lead to a situation which invokes catastrophic carbonization.

No such thing occurs. Lubricity has nothing to do with carbonization and sulfur does nothing in the fuel.

Quote:
They even recommended a regular lubricity additive for drivers of Benzs with older Bosch IPs.
Of course, they have lots of additive sponsors. The Star is a club magazine, not the official word of MB.

Quote:
This will raise combustion temps and promote the engines own self cleaning.
So will using more throttle when accelerating.

Quote:
To say "additives should never be used" is a little drastic.
How so? The only time MB recommends in-tank additives is in extreme cold for antigel.

Quote:
As for synthetic oils, yeah, they are superior to conventional, however, if the service schedule has been neglected to the point that either conventional or synthetic oils and sequestered particulates have actually caused the piston rings to stick what would your remedy of the compromise to the engines performance be?
If you've driven to the point of stuck rings, oil is the least of your worries (and clearly priorities too). A person that negligent would most likely just sell the car and buy a different one to abuse.

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AKA, ForcedInduction. ASE certified master technician.
1982 300D Holset HE221W turbo, 7mm M-Pump, A/W intercooler, W/M injection
1980 240D 3.0T OM617a, 4-speed manual, 3.07 diff

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Re: Decarbonizing - freeing up rings

MERCEDES-BENZ states that additives may not be used.

No one mentioned here how this car runs- how is it and what sort of symptoms does it display.

carbonization of the rings to the point they hurt the car's compression is usually tied into the use of unprocessed organic fuels [veggie oil].

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Pierre Hedary
...happily servicing vintage Mercedes-Benz in sunny Florida...
1972 280SE 4.5 252K
1970 280se 3.5 coupe 108K
1971 300sel 4.5 121K
1991 420SEL TMU, but looks brand new!
Mercedes technical advice: 407 765 2867

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Re: Decarbonizing - freeing up rings

Vince,

Patrick is really upset about something here. I think this is an event that we must not worry about , lest it drive us all to insanity.

In this case, all the useful information has been disclosed and we have established that:
A. ULSD cuases no wear to the injection pump, as it is lubricated by engine oil
B. Fuel injectors are not responsible for engine timing in ANY way.

You present good information. As an MBCA member, I would hope that you can see that people like Skip, Me, Robby, Chuck, etc. are all concerned about the quality and politeness of our internet forums. Do not let people who have to prove themselves right all the time due to personal issues impede your participation on this site. Visitor or member, we want you here becuase you love and understand your 300TD.

I feel I must comment on my training history and my qualifications:

I had a father who ran a top notch Mercedes-repair shop in Fort-Worth Texas. He also worked for Ryan Mercedes-Benz from 1978-1982, and still has close ties with previous clientelle.

I am the beneficiary of his knowledge, as I have worked closely with him since I was three years old. My ability is not influenced by the need to prove I am better than anyone- they simply reflect my love for the cars and my passion for good information.

Vince, on behalf of MBCA I apologize for any rudeness. You are not one to say anything out of the ordinary or to be rude to other posters on this forum. I apologize for a certain person who has pushed your buttons. I assure that we are going to attend to this situation so that this forum is returned to its high level of Mercedes-Benz fluency and proper attitude towards all good Mercedes Benz owners.

Pierre

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Pierre Hedary
...happily servicing vintage Mercedes-Benz in sunny Florida...
1972 280SE 4.5 252K
1970 280se 3.5 coupe 108K
1971 300sel 4.5 121K
1991 420SEL TMU, but looks brand new!
Mercedes technical advice: 407 765 2867

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